Hey BLG3RNT,
I main as Samuel and this is a great guide but I disagree with your item setups. Mages are more meant to be "glass cannon" characters (higher offense and lower defense) so I have to disagree with your choice to include Aegis/Metal Jacket and Contraption/Crucible in your build. I believe these are poor choices because Aegis, Metal Jacket and Crucible are all for added HP/Defense and the contraption does not really have a place in lane. Once you have Halcyon Chargers you can use those for the sprint boost and more often than not escape your enemy.
For my setup my friend and I agreed this was a good choice of tier 3 setup:
1. 1 Alternating Current (for added attack speed)
2. 1 Aftershock (becauce after you use Malice and Verdict your base attack will do added damage)
3. 1 Clockwork (for reduced cooldown)
4. 1 Eve of Harvest (for lifesteal and added crystal energy)
5. Shatterglass (for major bonus CP)
6. Halcyon Chargers (for speed, energy, and cooldown)
This is what works best for my way of playing Samuel but I know it is not flawless, but I find this setup more suitable for Samuel but my opinion is subject to change.
You mean the last second Taka pick happens to more people than just me! I can not tell you how many times I've locked in as a jungler and we already had a laner when at the (litteral) last second the other guy locks Taka! So annoying. And for some reason that only happens with Taka! No other person has locked in another hero besides Taka when doing that!
Hey BLG3RNT! Great guide, and as I main Samuel, it helped me a lot and now i average 10-20 kills per game in jungle and/or lane in casual online matches, so thanks! :)
You nailed this one. On ranked pvp (rather low, only T3), you can be really a destructive especially when you fire up on the heroic perk on heroes running away. Easily 1 hit KO if life is low. Just saying.
Oh yes, being extra annoying is when you load up flare gun as early as 3/5 minutes into the game. Bye to getting gank.
This message may come a little too late but I followed the exact build for this guide. You are rock solid on this and hey! Thanks for sharing.
On the side, I would say Samuel isn't really a killing machine. However, it is definitely one of the most annoying heroes in Vainglory! Jump backwards and fire? Haha.
Nonetheless, I would like to add that my first purchase is always crystal + boots + flare or boots, +atk speed + flare. If there is two laners, going for atk speed is a good option.
BLG3RNT, great build and i want to ask your opinion of my samuel build which based on you build
so here is the item i use
- Halcyon Chargers
- Aegis/Crucible
- Shatterglass
- Alternating Current
- Broken Myth
- Clockwork
give your opinion about my build BLG3RNT
thanks
regars EQDJ
Hey there I'm glad I inspired you! I'm happy to offer opinions on your build, but keep in mind this is purely my opinion, if it works for you go for it!
I personally don't like Alternating Current a CP Samuel doesn't really benefit from basic attacks much. It wouldn't be my choice in a build. I think you'd be far stronger with a Frostburn. Samuel is nearly impossible to escape if you're getting nailed with Malice & Verdict and being slowed the entire time. Plus with the empowered Malice & Verdicts doing splash damaged you can apply the slow to their entire team at the same time.
I think Clockwork doesn't get much bang for the buck with Samuel. His cooldowns are so small you don't save any time from the cooldown bonus, plus when you are in Drifting Dark the Malice & Verdict cooldowns are almost nonexistent. If you are looking for more cooldown on Oblivion you're better off going with Echo, which will also give you the extra energy that you get from Clockwork. It's not my preference to go with 4 offensive items, but if you are I think this is a better choice.
Otherwise your build looks solid, although I'd get rid of the Crucible option Aegis is a much stronger defensive item if you are only going to pick one, plus the CD on Aegis is better than on Crucible.
I love how people act like i didn't spend an hour in practice just walking around and writing everything down. And still didn't get them all after that.
I'm assuming you are talking about Corrupted Genius and not just lifesteal in general. The life steal and energy regen of Corrupted Genius does not scale. So no, regardless of the build the Corrupted Genius lifesteal perk doesn't change. I touch on this explanation more in items section when I talk about Alternating Current
Love this guide! Well done! I main petal, but Samuel is by far my second. I love Petal for her utility and how underestimated she often is. I can say the same with Samuel. With a Drifting Dark going backwards, a frostburn primed, and a couple shots of Malice & Verdict, I've managed to trail on heavy hitters. and even strung on a Krul before he could touch me, popping my boots as he used A. It makes me happy to know you built several roles for him. Also, thanks for clearing all of that up about the energy cost. I will make sure to Prime Corrupted Genius for heroes to get max energy.
Good guide! However, I would refrain from posting the whole lore (even if its in spoilers) in your guides, it provides little, if anything and doesnt contribute much to very decent guides
Really in depth guide! Loved it. I've also fallen in love with Samuel (I bought him with glory the second I could), and have been looking into different builds. I have one question about the Eve of Harvest. I still think it's a great first item on Samuel, particularly because it's cheap compared to the other items. And with all the lifesteal that Samuel comes with, isn't it better to be able to amp that CP lifesteal? I think that his lifesteal can help him make up for his lack of an escape.
Thanks for the props! Don't forget to give it a vote. So let's look at Eve of Harvest in regards to your question.
First, I do have a build in this guide listed with Eve of Harvest, so there's that. But that's besides the point. So, I move on.
Second, you aren't really amping his lifesteal. Corrupted Genius doesn't scale with anything it only restores 50-160 health depending on level. You are however adding 10% to all of your crystal damage. Here's what I mean by that: If you were amplifying the lifesteal he already does then it would increase the lifesteal you are already doing, that would mean that your 160 lifesteal from Corrupted Genius would turn into 176 lifesteal, but that's not the case. So it's not a true amperage of the lifesteal. I'm sure that's not what you mean, I'm just being literal. So again I move on.
So let's look at some actual stats, which is probably at the core of what you are asking. I'm going to use the build I have here that includes Eve of Harvest. That's the More energy less CP build. So let's assume that your opponents are going to build Aegis against you. That means with that build you are going to deal 139 damage with Corrupted Genius at level 12. This means you'll get 160 lifesteal from Corrupted Genius (remember this doesn't scale based on damage, and doesn't lower based on enemy shields so it's a true 160 lifesteal). On that particular hit you'll also deal 139 damage against the Aegis which turns into 14 lifesteal (or 35 if you are within the 25% lifesteal passive). This means you'll have to do that somewhere between 5-12 times before you get an extra 160 lifesteal from the bump of Eve of Harvest. [[corrupted genius is a far superior lifesteal mechanism. If I had to guess I'd guess you may have 1 instance a match where that exta 14-35 lifesteal keeps you alive in an encounter, that's just a guess, no way to actually measure that.
Moving on. I could get into every ability, but I'm simply going to look at Malice & Verdict since that's going to be your most common form of dealing crystal damage. Now, an empowered Malice & Verdict with this build will deal 588 damage. So if we put that up against an Aegis on Reim (I use Reim because he has the lowest shield of all characters so this is best case scenario), it will deal 250 crystal damage, which turns into 25/63 lifesteal, if you land both Malice & Verdict shots you're talking about 50/126 lifesteal from that one ability. Still less than your Corrupted Genius. Remember, these numbers are even smaller prior to level 12.
Is it viable? Yes. Watching the NALC the past couple of days Eve of Harvest has appeared in every Samuel build I've seen. That being said the analysts all said the same thing, Samuel is falling off late game. I'm not a pro by any stretch, but it's my belief that he is falling off because they are using Eve of Harvest instead of Shatterglass. For example look at my jungle build. That tops out at 400 crystal damage.
In an NALC match I saw a player named Oldskool on team Phoenix Reign use nearly my exact jungle build except he used Eve of Harvest instead of Shatterglass (he also used a different set of boots but that doesn't effect the CP so it's irrelevant for this conversation). It was a long match so he actually completed the entire build. So let's look at it.
So a build including Eve of Harvest, Broken Myth, Frostburn, and Clockwork offers 281 CP. Using the same Reim example above the empowered Malice & Verdict in that scenario will deal 263 crystal damage, which turns into 26/66 lifesteal or 52/132 if you land both shots. Now if you build it as I have on this guide with Shatterglass instead of Eve of Harvest, you loose the lifesteal, but you deal 329 per empower shot of Malice & Verdict. That's a 66 damage increase (exactly the same as the 25% version of the lifesteal) so in a sense it could be argued that's the same damage. However, in my eyes dealing more damage will kill or make your enemy run away faster. You might heal yourself with one version, but you have to ask yourself if 66 restored health means much at level 12. For comparison the worst unbuffed basic attack of any character is 80 (That's not including Lyra or Celeste who have basic attacks listed at 10, but use their CP to influence their basic attack). So one basic attack erases your lifesteal. So would you rather postpone the inevitable for one more basic attack, or would you rather prevent them from making that basic attack by killing them faster?
You ask a great question. It has a plethora of possible answers, with numerous variations, but I hope that answer gives you some insight as to why Eve of Harvest has fallen out of my favor after using him. I think more CP scales better than lifesteal does, that's my opinion.
Very detailed guide to Samuel. I like Samuel as a character since he is able to kill multiple enemies with his second and first. I skimmed over a lot but overall, good job.
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Great guide, btw!
I main as Samuel and this is a great guide but I disagree with your item setups. Mages are more meant to be "glass cannon" characters (higher offense and lower defense) so I have to disagree with your choice to include Aegis/Metal Jacket and Contraption/Crucible in your build. I believe these are poor choices because Aegis, Metal Jacket and Crucible are all for added HP/Defense and the contraption does not really have a place in lane. Once you have Halcyon Chargers you can use those for the sprint boost and more often than not escape your enemy.
For my setup my friend and I agreed this was a good choice of tier 3 setup:
1. 1 Alternating Current (for added attack speed)
2. 1 Aftershock (becauce after you use Malice and Verdict your base attack will do added damage)
3. 1 Clockwork (for reduced cooldown)
4. 1 Eve of Harvest (for lifesteal and added crystal energy)
5. Shatterglass (for major bonus CP)
6. Halcyon Chargers (for speed, energy, and cooldown)
This is what works best for my way of playing Samuel but I know it is not flawless, but I find this setup more suitable for Samuel but my opinion is subject to change.
Oh yes, being extra annoying is when you load up flare gun as early as 3/5 minutes into the game. Bye to getting gank.
On the side, I would say Samuel isn't really a killing machine. However, it is definitely one of the most annoying heroes in Vainglory! Jump backwards and fire? Haha.
Nonetheless, I would like to add that my first purchase is always crystal + boots + flare or boots, +atk speed + flare. If there is two laners, going for atk speed is a good option.
Just saying :)
so here is the item i use
- Halcyon Chargers
- Aegis/Crucible
- Shatterglass
- Alternating Current
- Broken Myth
- Clockwork
give your opinion about my build BLG3RNT
thanks
regars EQDJ
I personally don't like Alternating Current a CP Samuel doesn't really benefit from basic attacks much. It wouldn't be my choice in a build. I think you'd be far stronger with a Frostburn. Samuel is nearly impossible to escape if you're getting nailed with Malice & Verdict and being slowed the entire time. Plus with the empowered Malice & Verdicts doing splash damaged you can apply the slow to their entire team at the same time.
I think Clockwork doesn't get much bang for the buck with Samuel. His cooldowns are so small you don't save any time from the cooldown bonus, plus when you are in Drifting Dark the Malice & Verdict cooldowns are almost nonexistent. If you are looking for more cooldown on Oblivion you're better off going with Echo, which will also give you the extra energy that you get from Clockwork. It's not my preference to go with 4 offensive items, but if you are I think this is a better choice.
Otherwise your build looks solid, although I'd get rid of the Crucible option Aegis is a much stronger defensive item if you are only going to pick one, plus the CD on Aegis is better than on Crucible.
we can play together sometimes
First, I do have a build in this guide listed with Eve of Harvest, so there's that. But that's besides the point. So, I move on.
Second, you aren't really amping his lifesteal. Corrupted Genius doesn't scale with anything it only restores 50-160 health depending on level. You are however adding 10% to all of your crystal damage. Here's what I mean by that: If you were amplifying the lifesteal he already does then it would increase the lifesteal you are already doing, that would mean that your 160 lifesteal from Corrupted Genius would turn into 176 lifesteal, but that's not the case. So it's not a true amperage of the lifesteal. I'm sure that's not what you mean, I'm just being literal. So again I move on.
So let's look at some actual stats, which is probably at the core of what you are asking. I'm going to use the build I have here that includes Eve of Harvest. That's the More energy less CP build. So let's assume that your opponents are going to build Aegis against you. That means with that build you are going to deal 139 damage with Corrupted Genius at level 12. This means you'll get 160 lifesteal from Corrupted Genius (remember this doesn't scale based on damage, and doesn't lower based on enemy shields so it's a true 160 lifesteal). On that particular hit you'll also deal 139 damage against the Aegis which turns into 14 lifesteal (or 35 if you are within the 25% lifesteal passive). This means you'll have to do that somewhere between 5-12 times before you get an extra 160 lifesteal from the bump of Eve of Harvest. [[corrupted genius is a far superior lifesteal mechanism. If I had to guess I'd guess you may have 1 instance a match where that exta 14-35 lifesteal keeps you alive in an encounter, that's just a guess, no way to actually measure that.
Moving on. I could get into every ability, but I'm simply going to look at Malice & Verdict since that's going to be your most common form of dealing crystal damage. Now, an empowered Malice & Verdict with this build will deal 588 damage. So if we put that up against an Aegis on Reim (I use Reim because he has the lowest shield of all characters so this is best case scenario), it will deal 250 crystal damage, which turns into 25/63 lifesteal, if you land both Malice & Verdict shots you're talking about 50/126 lifesteal from that one ability. Still less than your Corrupted Genius. Remember, these numbers are even smaller prior to level 12.
Is it viable? Yes. Watching the NALC the past couple of days Eve of Harvest has appeared in every Samuel build I've seen. That being said the analysts all said the same thing, Samuel is falling off late game. I'm not a pro by any stretch, but it's my belief that he is falling off because they are using Eve of Harvest instead of Shatterglass. For example look at my jungle build. That tops out at 400 crystal damage.
In an NALC match I saw a player named Oldskool on team Phoenix Reign use nearly my exact jungle build except he used Eve of Harvest instead of Shatterglass (he also used a different set of boots but that doesn't effect the CP so it's irrelevant for this conversation). It was a long match so he actually completed the entire build. So let's look at it.
So a build including Eve of Harvest, Broken Myth, Frostburn, and Clockwork offers 281 CP. Using the same Reim example above the empowered Malice & Verdict in that scenario will deal 263 crystal damage, which turns into 26/66 lifesteal or 52/132 if you land both shots. Now if you build it as I have on this guide with Shatterglass instead of Eve of Harvest, you loose the lifesteal, but you deal 329 per empower shot of Malice & Verdict. That's a 66 damage increase (exactly the same as the 25% version of the lifesteal) so in a sense it could be argued that's the same damage. However, in my eyes dealing more damage will kill or make your enemy run away faster. You might heal yourself with one version, but you have to ask yourself if 66 restored health means much at level 12. For comparison the worst unbuffed basic attack of any character is 80 (That's not including Lyra or Celeste who have basic attacks listed at 10, but use their CP to influence their basic attack). So one basic attack erases your lifesteal. So would you rather postpone the inevitable for one more basic attack, or would you rather prevent them from making that basic attack by killing them faster?
You ask a great question. It has a plethora of possible answers, with numerous variations, but I hope that answer gives you some insight as to why Eve of Harvest has fallen out of my favor after using him. I think more CP scales better than lifesteal does, that's my opinion.