First off, excellent write up. I appreciate the time you spent to explain your choices in equipment through each build. I'm not a new player, per se, but I'm definitely still a rookie, and I'm new to the forums/guides, etc. So “CP,” “WP,” and other abbreviations are foreign to me. It took me a few minutes to figure out that CP is Crystal Power and WP is Weapon Power. No idea what AoE is still. Will you possibly include, or point me in the direction of, a guide that lists these things? For example, when you first mention Crystal Power (CP), you can through the abbreviation in parentheses right after it so any newbs like myself will know that Crystal Power will be referred to as CP in the rest of the guide.
In any case, thank you for the guide. I upvoted it.
I love the CP Boom build, but I am afraid that the CP Slow consumes wayyyyy to much energy and regardless of its use in the jungle, it becomes very frustrating during team fights. I tried it with halcyon chargers, but still consumed too much energy. I agree that AC synergies fairly well, but I think that the frostburn needs to be replaced with an item that has some form of energy recharge (like aftershock or eve). Otherwise, little to no more complaints here :-)
While frost burn is a good item, Gwen already has a slow from buckshot bonanza, a speed boost to finish someone off with skidaddle, and a stun. I think that is enough slows for one sniper :3
Oh god this is like one of the best guide for beginners like me :) Oh and I love how you included all the Math and calculations too. Seriously this guide has helped a lot. I used to main tanky heroes like Reim, and I was trying to learn different play styles (you don't want to be a full-time jungler right?) .
I usually start off rushing Alternating Current, then I will try and buy the remaining items depending on the situation.
Do you think replacing Frostburn by Clockwork is a good idea? Cuz I found that Gwen's energy is really, really easy to run out. Usually I'll buy a Clockwork, a Halcyon Charger, and a Stormcrown, just to make up for her low energy, and it will also help my Buckshot Bonanza to be available faster.
SO... do you think it's a good idea?
Thanks for the guide anyway :)
What do u think about Tension Bow? I'd prefer TB than SB. Can u do the math? Btw this is a nice guide, maybe u should make 4 build — 2 cp & 2 cp — thanks!
That's kinda what I figured while at the same time the stats from Tornado trigger would be better supported by building a Tyrant's Monocle and Breaking point.
Wow you seem bent on insulting him and his guides so I'd like to make a few points here.
1) I'd like to see you make a better guide
2) You're supposed to be helping people here, that's why this website exists lol
3) If you don't like it then go away or help make it better
I'm starting to think he just has a school boy crush on me. You know, boy likes someone so boy insults them to get their attention type thing. He's made 5 posts on this site, 4 of them have to do with me. -shrugs-
Would you recommend a Hybrid build for Gwen? I'm thinking something along the lines of a Shatterglass, Aftershock (for the glorious combo of Lifesteal Crystal Chunking due to a Bonanza+Boomstick), Atlas Pauldron/Aegis/Metal Jacket depending on the enemy team build (because crystal assassin's are a thing now), obviously Journey Boots, and to top it all off a Weapon item to help make your perk matter.
I personally am not a big fan of hybrids. While it seems like it would work with players like Gwen, I find that it usually ends up not strong enough in either category. I think Skye maybe be the best equipped for a hybrid build since the ratios on her A are identical for WP and CP.
How do you even find the time to write all of this out?!?! I try and write stuff out but I get sidetracked by stuff going on around me or by my own thought process. The longest guide I've written was probably the threats for either Taka or Lance on my guides for them. Could you explain how you even think to write this much??? PM me if you don't wanna take even mpore space on the comments section.
Well, this may become long and lengthy which apparently isn't what people like LOL, but I have no problem taking up more space. It's probably going to answer more than just your question, but oh well.
I've been a gamer for longer than most people who play this game have even been alive, LOL. I've spent a lot of that time playing RPGs and you can buy strategy guides for those games, and they give details you wouldn't even think to ask. By the time I started writing guides I'd been playing this game for a long time, so the guides that basically just offered item selections didn't interest me, I knew enough about item selection. Let's face it, if VG falls short somewhere it's in their items,VG doesn't have the largest item selection, and they haven't done the greatest job creating characters the thrive under different item builds. CP builds are typically cored around broken myth, WP builds are cored around breaking point. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part.
What I wanted from a guide were strategy and tactics. I also wanted to understand why. That's the origin of my statistic analysis. Was there really a reason everything was cored around a couple of items? Or was it just because people were copying people who were good. This is the reason my guides usually contain an aspect of "different", because I sought to use the numbers rather than just what works in the game. Admittedly, that's faultered a bit down the line.
So when I built my first guide, my Lyra guide, I wanted to include everything that I wanted to know from guides in my guide.
I don't write my guides in one go. My first guide was written over the course of a week. I save them as drafts as I progress through.
After my first couple guides, and I locked down the template I wanted to use, it became faster. Now a lot of it is copy and paste. My guides are probably around 40/50% c&p. There is information that doesn't change, but I can't assume everyone reads all of my guides, So information has to be repeated.
Another thing I do now is I prep my guides. When a new character is coming out I create a draft with everything that is copy and paste, and usually spend a week as I have time, leading up to the character release, changing names, editing things that are character specific, and getting the guide ready.
Distractions are going to happen, thought processes are good. When I get brain tired I take a break. Often I'll take a break and spend a few hours pondering over a section to decide extactly how I want to explain it. The fun part is that sometimes I spend that time playing the game. Playing the character I'm writing a guide on can refresh my perspective, or help me to clarify how to explain what I do.
So I don't sit down and do it all at once. The closest it comes is when a new character comes out. Getting my guide released on the day of release can become an all day event for me. So yes it takes a lot of time for me, but it's like a hobby for me. I enjoy the process.
One more question. Why don't you include threats for the guides you have made? Surely that would interest you and be quite helpful as to when to play the character more carefully or when to just walk in guns ablaze.
Because I believe threats are far to player specific. The most common argument I see on guides is about threats. That's because everyone struggles with different characters for different reasons. A lot about guides is subjective, but I think threats are one of the most subjective aspects to guides. Characters that are threats are just characters I can't figure out. The characters that are the biggest threats to me are characters that have stuns. Why is that? That's because I suck at reflex block. Not everyone sucks at reflex block, so my threat list would be a joke to many people. I get wrecked by Koshka, but if you can reliably block her catnip frenzy she's fairly easy to counter. Krul is generally easy for me to beat because I understand that atlas pauldron destroys what he wants to accomplish, but a Krul player that is efficient with From Hell's Heart can cause me problems. A final example is Reim, I generally wreck people with Reim, but he's pretty easy for me to beat, because I understand that if you keep your distance and avoid damage you prevent his fortified health. A lot of players engage with Reim, but if as a team you refuse to focus him you can focus the others on his team first, or you take him out with a range player.
This of course is my opinion, but I don't find threats to be a reliable part of a guide. This is also similar in reverse. A character may be a great counter to another character, but if you aren't efficient with that character the counter isn't going to work. Threats and synergies are far more player specific than any other part of a guide.
Dear Lord! Worst guide ever. Quit trying to write a damn novel and just give us the basics. I've read a ton of guides with much better, more concise content than this. Trim it up, for God's sake.
Funny thing perspective isn't it? I'd recommend you not read my guides anymore, because this is what they are. I'll refrain from being insulting in return, but it's not going to change. Clearly far more people enjoy them than feel like you do. This is actually one of my shorter guides. If you want long you should look at my Samuel or Lyra guides. It's kind of funny that the "worst guide ever" is the highest voter guide for this character. There's a brain teaser for you.
He did say it was a 'COMPLETE GUIDE' so you should have expected a lot of info and analysis in this guide. If you want the basics of the hero instead of an in-depth analysis, go find it yourself. Besides, different people have different writing styles, some with more lengthy descriptions than others. If this doesn't suit you, go find one that suits your taste and preferences. Don't just insult others like that
Yeah I think it's kind of forcing the issue to make Gwen fit into the current meta. I think she's fun as hell to play, but just seems off for competitive play. I think they may actually need to shrink the cool down or something on her abilities if they want her relevant.
There are several heroes that have hybrid possibilities. Kestrel, Baron, and Gwen come immediately to mind. However, I've never found any combinations that I personally am a fan of. I think that Kestrel comes the closest to feasible because of achieving both long lasting stealth and being able to go stealth in the middle of combat.
I think it goes back to that saying "if you're good at everything you can't be great at anything". Without 3-4 items dedicated to WP Gwen's basic attack isn't really strong enough to matter, and the same can be said about her Buckshot Bonanza with CP. When you build CP Gwen her basic attack is a joke, especially when it's not powered by Boomstick, and if you aren't doing serious poke damage you're just kinda... kinda there, making loud bangs every once in awhile.
I don't include Aftershock because with CP Gwen you can't take advantage of it. Much like a CP Baron you truly belong on the outskirts of the battle. You should be poking with Buckshot Bonanza and staying away from the middle of battle, and retreating if anyone approaches you. You should literally prep your Buckshot Bonanza and fire it when your target is at the very edge of your range, wait for it to recharge, and then fire again. Gwen's range is pitiful, and so you'd have to get to close to the fight in order to land the basic attack after an ability to take advantage of Aftershock. In my opinion it really is a pointless item, and has no synergy with Gwen.
In regards to Aftershock, I think it is definitely a viable item with Gwen. I completely agree that CP Gwen should do her best to stay on the outskirts of fights, but rarely is this perfectly executed. Much more often than not, Gwen will be within auto attack range of an enemy at some point during a team fight. In the earlier part of the game, Gwen is only able to output real damage every 10 seconds. This is not effective in a team fight setting. Going for an early-ish Aftershock gives Gwen viability in team fights in the early-mid game. It also scales well into the late game, where an item like Alternating Current would fall off. Not only does Aftershock provide cooldown, but in the late game it allows you to benefit from the Aftershock effect more often, once Gwen can utilize Buckshot Bonanza more frequently. I think a combination of all these factors makes Aftershock at least a viable option for CP Gwen.
- I really appreciate your knowledge and input in discussions, let me know your thoughts.
Well this is why there are different builds for different people. There's no right answer, if you think it works then go for it.
For me it's not about "falloff". Honestly there's nothing to fall off. I'm purchasing Alternating Current primarily for the attack speed, the benefit of a shorter cooldown on Boomstick, and to allow me to apply the slow from Frostburn off of a basic attack. All the items work together in the build that I use Alternating Current. Sometimes it's not just about the damage, too often we get consumed with "how much damage".
Again about "falloff", it's not about that with Aftershock, it's about the efficiency. You say "rarely is this perfectly executed", to which I first applaud you for looking at items that aid in execution shortcomings, but in my experience if I fail to execute staying on the outskirts, if they get that close to me, I've already failed and the occasions are too rare in which Aftershock will save me in this situations.
You point out the cooldown factor, and how it scales late game. Well at overdrive buckshot bonaza has a cooldown of 5 seconds. If you overdrive it first you probably get it around the 7-8 minute mark? At level 8 depending on the order of your skill selection. At that point the 25% cooldown increase only changes that 5 seconds into 4 seconds, so the major benefit of Aftershock, outside of it's passive, becomes not all that much in the late game.
When we talk about synergy with Aftershock there are different tiers of synergy, and this is how I would characterize them.
Perfect synergy: Aftershock has perfect synergy with characters like Alpha, Ardan, or Fortress who have abilities which apply basic attack damage, thus instantly using Aftershock's passive.
Great synergy: Aftershock has great synergy with crystal powered melee fighters who use their abilities up close and are nearly immediately followed by a basic attack to take advantage of Aftershock's passive like Koshka whose abilities are almost always followed by a basic attack.
Good synergy: Aftershock has good synergy with characters like Lyra whose abilities and basic attacks can be made without a change of range. I place these characters in the "good" category because they still require targeting after the ability is cast so Aftershock's passive isn't a guarantee.
Poor Synergy: Aftershock has poor synergy with characters like Baron, Celeste, and Gwen who can cast their abilities from much greater ranges than their basic attacks, thus requiring a range change to take advantage of Aftershock's passive.
Let's make no mistake. The passive is the strength of Aftershock. The item doesn't excel in any other area statistically speaking. There are better items for cooldown, energy regen, and the CP isn't worth discussing considering I can replicate the 35 CP with a simple Eclipse Prism. Clockwork almost doubles the cooldown, and triples the energy regen, and with it's passive will surpass the CP easily. Stormcrown while not offering CP provides better cooldown and energy regen, and would make Gwen's basic attack somewhat viable in a crystal build. The point is there is really no reason to buy Aftershock other than the passive 15% of max health damage. Thus when we talk about how the item synergizes with Gwen, I just don't see it as viable.
I hope perhaps this explanation of how Aftershock synergizes with different characters helps you understand how I feel the item works with different characters. But perhaps you disagree with my rating method.
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In any case, thank you for the guide. I upvoted it.
I usually start off rushing Alternating Current, then I will try and buy the remaining items depending on the situation.
Do you think replacing Frostburn by Clockwork is a good idea? Cuz I found that Gwen's energy is really, really easy to run out. Usually I'll buy a Clockwork, a Halcyon Charger, and a Stormcrown, just to make up for her low energy, and it will also help my Buckshot Bonanza to be available faster.
SO... do you think it's a good idea?
Thanks for the guide anyway :)
Comment has been deleted
1) I'd like to see you make a better guide
2) You're supposed to be helping people here, that's why this website exists lol
3) If you don't like it then go away or help make it better
Comment has been deleted
I've been a gamer for longer than most people who play this game have even been alive, LOL. I've spent a lot of that time playing RPGs and you can buy strategy guides for those games, and they give details you wouldn't even think to ask. By the time I started writing guides I'd been playing this game for a long time, so the guides that basically just offered item selections didn't interest me, I knew enough about item selection. Let's face it, if VG falls short somewhere it's in their items,VG doesn't have the largest item selection, and they haven't done the greatest job creating characters the thrive under different item builds. CP builds are typically cored around broken myth, WP builds are cored around breaking point. Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part.
What I wanted from a guide were strategy and tactics. I also wanted to understand why. That's the origin of my statistic analysis. Was there really a reason everything was cored around a couple of items? Or was it just because people were copying people who were good. This is the reason my guides usually contain an aspect of "different", because I sought to use the numbers rather than just what works in the game. Admittedly, that's faultered a bit down the line.
So when I built my first guide, my Lyra guide, I wanted to include everything that I wanted to know from guides in my guide.
I don't write my guides in one go. My first guide was written over the course of a week. I save them as drafts as I progress through.
After my first couple guides, and I locked down the template I wanted to use, it became faster. Now a lot of it is copy and paste. My guides are probably around 40/50% c&p. There is information that doesn't change, but I can't assume everyone reads all of my guides, So information has to be repeated.
Another thing I do now is I prep my guides. When a new character is coming out I create a draft with everything that is copy and paste, and usually spend a week as I have time, leading up to the character release, changing names, editing things that are character specific, and getting the guide ready.
Distractions are going to happen, thought processes are good. When I get brain tired I take a break. Often I'll take a break and spend a few hours pondering over a section to decide extactly how I want to explain it. The fun part is that sometimes I spend that time playing the game. Playing the character I'm writing a guide on can refresh my perspective, or help me to clarify how to explain what I do.
So I don't sit down and do it all at once. The closest it comes is when a new character comes out. Getting my guide released on the day of release can become an all day event for me. So yes it takes a lot of time for me, but it's like a hobby for me. I enjoy the process.
This of course is my opinion, but I don't find threats to be a reliable part of a guide. This is also similar in reverse. A character may be a great counter to another character, but if you aren't efficient with that character the counter isn't going to work. Threats and synergies are far more player specific than any other part of a guide.
Comment has been deleted
Comment has been deleted
I think it goes back to that saying "if you're good at everything you can't be great at anything". Without 3-4 items dedicated to WP
I don't include
- I really appreciate your knowledge and input in discussions, let me know your thoughts.
For me it's not about "falloff". Honestly there's nothing to fall off. I'm purchasing
Again about "falloff", it's not about that with
You point out the cooldown factor, and how it scales late game. Well at overdrive buckshot bonaza has a cooldown of 5 seconds. If you overdrive it first you probably get it around the 7-8 minute mark? At level 8 depending on the order of your skill selection. At that point the 25% cooldown increase only changes that 5 seconds into 4 seconds, so the major benefit of
When we talk about synergy with
Perfect synergy:
Great synergy:
Good synergy:
Poor Synergy:
Let's make no mistake. The passive is the strength of
I hope perhaps this explanation of how