Vainglory Forums

First off, it drives me crazy when I see people jungle with Petal. Might be just me, but Petal alone in the jungle is easy pickings for the enemy, or for me when playing opposite. I primarily play Krul, and with most heroes it really depends on how you play each one of the characters. I've got a couple questions for you:

!) When you are in the selection screen, are you picking a hero based on how your team is shaping up? Or do you immediately select who you want to play and click "lock in" before the other players have chosen there possible heroes?

2) Why can't you play Glaive? Have you not purchased him and you were only using him while he was free to play? If you still have him available, a tip for you to play against Krul (which aggravates me to know end) is to use his "Afterburn" ability to flee before Krul uses "Spectral Smite".

3) What is wrong with 2 laners? 2 laners allows the jungler to advance quickly and should be able to help in the lane when the time is right. I love it when I am the only true jungler and within a few minutes I'm ganking in the lane to give me teammates a good head start on turret smashing. IF a team has 2 junglers, IMHO they should immediately be farming the opposite teams jungle and not trying to share their jungle camps. this will gimp both players since they will level at half speed. 2 laners should be able to pressure the lane, get a few enemy kills and score gold off of turrets to keep pace with gold.

4) Do you use the team standings screen during gameplay to monitor how you enemies are building their heroes? weapon or crystal?

From my experience, the hero that BY FAR kills me the fastest while I'm Krul is Taka. Unless I have FHH available, which is not that often when randomly meeting Taka in the jungle, I stand very little chance. When he uses his smoke bomb after the initial encounter and I am waiting on cooldowns, I am practically defenseless.

The best defense against Krul with ANY hero is Aegis when you see him rush, and Lifespring if he is persistent. I try to build my hero based on who my opponents are and whether they are building weapon/crystal builds. Again, this is only my opinion, and I could be wrong. But this has been my experience playing against other heroes primarily as Krul. If you can survive the DMR and Spectral Smite in the first couple seconds, you should be able to get away while Krul is on cooldowns.

First off, it drives me crazy when I see people jungle with Petal. Might be just me, but Petal alone in the jungle is easy pickings for the enemy, or for me when playing opposite. I primarily play Krul, and with most heroes it really depends on how you play each one of the characters. I've got a couple questions for you:

[...]

3) What is wrong with 2 laners? 2 laners allows the jungler to advance quickly and should be able to help in the lane when the time is right. I love it when I am the only true jungler and within a few minutes I'm ganking in the lane to give me teammates a good head start on turret smashing. IF a team has 2 junglers, IMHO they should immediately be farming the opposite teams jungle and not trying to share their jungle camps. this will gimp both players since they will level at half speed. 2 laners should be able to pressure the lane, get a few enemy kills and score gold off of turrets to keep pace with gold.

With Krul being free to play now, I can't use my main(Glaive) so I started using petal since I'm pretty good with her, but if another person picks a laner, I'm almost forced to jungle with petal. It's so easy to harass petal early in the match and if he's paired with taka/koshka, I'm im in for a tough fight and will be behind in gold for majority of the early game. What gets me almost everytime is his passive accompanied with the stun. Then he just autos poor petal to death and catches me with dead mans rush.

So I was reading and people suggested that adagio was a pretty good counter, but I'm no good with crystal build on him to actually Ward off Krul. Is it still possible to ward him off using weapons build on adagio and still be effective late game as I would be using crystal build?

Keep in mind that I'm not a pro player. Yet ;-)

First off, it drives me crazy when I see people jungle with Petal. Might be just me, but Petal alone in the jungle is easy pickings for the enemy, or for me when playing opposite. I primarily play Krul, and with most heroes it really depends on how you play each one of the characters. I've got a couple questions for you:

!) When you are in the selection screen, are you picking a hero based on how your team is shaping up? Or do you immediately select who you want to play and click "lock in" before the other players have chosen there possible heroes?

2) Why can't you play Glaive? Have you not purchased him and you were only using him while he was free to play? If you still have him available, a tip for you to play against Krul (which aggravates me to know end) is to use his "Afterburn" ability to flee before Krul uses "Spectral Smite".

3) What is wrong with 2 laners? 2 laners allows the jungler to advance quickly and should be able to help in the lane when the time is right. I love it when I am the only true jungler and within a few minutes I'm ganking in the lane to give me teammates a good head start on turret smashing. IF a team has 2 junglers, IMHO they should immediately be farming the opposite teams jungle and not trying to share their jungle camps. this will gimp both players since they will level at half speed. 2 laners should be able to pressure the lane, get a few enemy kills and score gold off of turrets to keep pace with gold.

4) Do you use the team standings screen during gameplay to monitor how you enemies are building their heroes? weapon or crystal?

From my experience, the hero that BY FAR kills me the fastest while I'm Krul is Taka. Unless I have FHH available, which is not that often when randomly meeting Taka in the jungle, I stand very little chance. When he uses his smoke bomb after the initial encounter and I am waiting on cooldowns, I am practically defenseless.

The best defense against Krul with ANY hero is Aegis when you see him rush, and Lifespring if he is persistent. I try to build my hero based on who my opponents are and whether they are building weapon/crystal builds. Again, this is only my opinion, and I could be wrong. But this has been my experience playing against other heroes primarily as Krul. If you can survive the DMR and Spectral Smite in the first couple seconds, you should be able to get away while Krul is on cooldowns.

The 2 laner/1 laner argument is never a sure fire way to win matches. It always comes down to player ability. I just don't want the OP to feel that there should ALWAYS be only 1 laner. Feel free to go with 2 laners as long as there is a good jungler selected. Then, play aggressive and drive towards the turrets and getting enemy kills. Don't fight over minions since you will both level too slow. I don't think that Joule or Catherine are good dedicated junglers that can fight off and hold the enemy raiders back. But that's just my opinion. If I see a laner and a jungler "lock in" right away, I'll go with Catherine since I find that she is best assisting both worlds. Usually (my best guess) people that "lock in" right away are either new, or are trying out a hero for the first time and are going to play them no matter what. If that's the case, it's up to the gods at the point if we'll be ok.

If 2 junglers are selected, and they fight over there own camps and don't raid the enemy side, chances are they are going to level too slow to keep pace with the enemy team and...what's happening in the lane now? Since the enemy side has 2 laners? Allied hero killed....again...and oh, that was just an allied turret going down, but don't let that stop the junglers from grinding out levels. I say all that tongue in cheek since that is a worst case scenario. Not saying that is the norm at all. Only pointing out that it all comes down to player ability. I prefer to jungle solo since I do it well. I also prefer to take the Kraken solo while my team mates pressure the lane to keep any potential thieves away from stealing him. But that's my preferences. I've had my share of not clicking with my team and all of us going down in flames, but who hasn't? But for the OP, skill with hero coupled with wise equipment choices will trump any native hero vs. hero advantages. If a hero is gimped vs. another hero from the get-go (ex. Ringo vs. Petal) then your best option is to target other heroes and gang tackle your nemesis with team mates. That'll overcome any 1v1 mismatches you might come across. Use the "Go" ping to specify to your team mates which enemy hero you want to blitz, since the ping will stay on the hero you choose, and as a team you should be able to get around any hard cases.

I personnaly don't agree with what you say :

1- A jungle Petal is a dangerous enemy once she reached level 2. Let me explain why :

-Her range. She can kite like hell since she has the biggest range in the game. Her munions will slowly destroy if she kites well. If she buys Shiversteel, she becomes even more deadly : She will have even more health (+600) and will be able to slow you down for 1 second, enough time to outspace you and kite you even more thanks to her range. The most OP build with Shiversteel is Breaking Point. Breaking Point brings +12 in attack per second she is attacking an enemy. Result ? After 10 seconds she has +120. After 20 seconds she has +240. Sorrowblade grants +150. In less than 13 seconds, she'll be a tanky weapon flower. If she reaches 20 seconds, man you're dead.
You might say that it is the case with any character but you're wrong. The only three characters for who breaking point is usefull are Krul, Petal and Adagio. Krul because he can be tanky enough to build the Breaking Point Stacks. Petal because she has the longgest range and can kite while building the BP stacks (The enenmy, whoever it is, can't keep up with her kiting and Shiversteel, even with the gap-closer that are Dead Man's Rush, Kaiten, X-Retsu, because she'll be tanky enough to survive them). Last but not least is Adagio because he has the second biggest range in the game, and his abilities can heal him and slow you down : Gift of Fire or improve his power : Agent of Wrath.

-She can harass the hell out of your jungle thanks to what I mentionned earlier. The lane isn't a good place for her and this builds because the enemy can prevent her from building stacks by hiding behind the turret, or by poking her. But, in the jungle, your ways to escape are limited : if you try to face her, she'll activate Shiversteel, slow you down and kite you to death. If you try to run away, Shiversteel and she won't stop kiting you until you're dead. The only way to counter her is by building a Atlas Pouldron, slowing dead her attack, preventing her from hurting you once she built up her Breaking Point stacks and making sure she is dead within the first 15 seconds she attacks you. Otherwise you'll be wiped.


2- You say 2 laners is a good thing ? Well, I'll prove it is not.
A developper of this game once said : "If you consider the turret as a fourth player, it is clear to say the lane is safe for your laner even against two laners."
Why ? Because the two enemy laners will keep pushing hard for sure, but their turret won't help them. But your turret will help you to get the last hits and clearing the enemy minion waves faster.
I suppose I don't need to say that the 2 laners will have to share the gold and the experience that was supposed to be collected by knly one of them. So, their supremacy will last for like, 5-8 minutes, after that point their lack of gold and experience will start to re-balance the match.
You say that when you have 2 laners you can easily gank the enemy solo laner. Then you have been facing bad teams because an average team on my Skill Tier (The Hotness) will harass the hell out of your solo jungler, will take all your minions camps, won't stop hitting you hard and starve you. Their cycle should be simple :
1-Harass the enemy jungler (2vs1)
2-Gank the enemy laners (3vs2)
3-Farm
With this scheme, neither you or you laners will have enough gold or experience to face them, the game will be wrapped in like 20 minutes with a very harsh late game for your team. And rest assured that this is the only scheme I see at my level, even when I'm solo queue, should I be on the 2 laners team or the other.
Having 2 laners works hard in the early game for the 2 laners, falls off as hard in the late game. The important thing for the solo laner is to survive the first minutes thanks to his turret in order to not feed them, as he'll have more and more gold advantage on them. Seriously, in all the 2 laners games I had recently, I must only have seen once the 2 laners team win once. You should watch the developpers play time to time and you'll see that they never ever play as 2 laners team. It might work at low Karma or Skill level, but at higher levels it is impossible.

For the rest of what you said, I have no opinions since their your experiences.