[4.5] The Complete 5v5 Tierlist by Pasu

[4.5] The Complete 5v5 Tierlist

By: Pasu
Last Updated: Aug 4, 2019
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CookieCutter427 (1) | August 4, 2019 3:31am
Warhawk and skaarf should be S-tier for mid imo they are so oppressive in lane, warhawk's passive allows him to completely outrade every other midlaner due to it's massive range and relatively high damage. And with skaarf's recent A buff your average t10 player will land 80% of their A and get free damage on you. But overall your midlane tier list is decent. The biggest problem I have would be your top tier list. Currently in t10 Joule, blackfeather and Leo are the highest priority picks outside of miho which is basically permabanned. Joule is so tanky this patch and completely outrades basically everyone in lane, her only weakness being that she runs out of energy quickly. Leo is like Joule but squishier and with less energy restraints. Blackfeather poke trading isn't as good as the other two but he arguably has the strongest all in. By poking down with his B and then diving with his A and autoing you can easily get kills on the enemy laner. All three of these laners also scale well into the late game so you can potentially carry from top lane. With a duo or a bigger party, utility tank top laners like ardan Cath grumpjaw or Grace become extremely strong picks. Tanks in vg have very good early damage, which can transition into powerful cc for late game like pulseweave or their abilities. All this is coming from a t10 SEA player.
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Pasu (6) | August 4, 2019 6:10am
Hey man,

Thank you for your comment! Tbh I haven’t played much at all this season due to exams coming up, so this guide will be slightly outdated until I return to the game and play more often, hence Miho being missing and Skaarf and Warhawk being rock bottom still.

I found it kind of surprising that you would say that Joule was the placement you had the most issue with. Joule hasn’t seen any play apart from that one patch where they reworked her Rocket Leap to a slow instead of knock back, after which they nerfed her into the ground. Perhaps her buffs make her playable again? Once again, I haven’t played much this season, so I have no idea how the game is going (currently just decaying rank from what was originally SA Silver).

~Pasu
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TheMutantHotDog | August 2, 2019 9:00am
I'm just going to be focusing on top lane because that's what I mainly play in t10. I am also going to be assuming 5v5 partied matches, because the dynamics of soloq are so different from scrims.

Top lane will be mostly playing 1v2 for laning phase. The first gank will usually come from the enemy jungler's 2nd level, after clearing buff and a camp. This means that before you hit level 2, there will be a level 2 jungler, and a level 1 laner in your lane. Therefore, any heroes who get demolished in this scenario are not viable top laners. This includes Gwen and Caine, making them unviable in the top lane. On the other hand, heroes with either good trading, waveclear, or sustain level 1 are great for top lane. Personally, I feel the S-tier top laners are Grumpjaw, Lyra, Grace, and Joule. Grumpjaw is especially good, because with a banner, you can clear the healer without missing any lane creeps, allowing you to hit level 2 at the same time as the jungler, giving you a reliable escape and initation tool.

A-tier heroes are Leo, Reza, Ylva, and Blackfeather

B-tier heroes are Kensei, Lance, Baptiste and San Feng

C-tier heroes are Idris, Adagio, and Samuel



I can't really speak for other lanes because I probably can't play them at a t10 standard, but just from what I see, the best midlaners are Skaarf, Loralai, Vox, and Samuel by proxy. Varya is never played.
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Pasu (6) | August 2, 2019 10:32pm
Hey man,

Thanks for your detailed comment!

First of all, the world of soloq is literally the opposite of 5v5 parties. 1) You don't get flamed by your teammates for making a tiny mistake. 2) You won't be forced into a role you're not familiar with, which means that you can play at your best capacity. 3) As a laner you won't have to deal with your jungler stealing your farm (which happens wayyyy too often in higher tiers, the other day I tried to freeze the lane against Miho, only for the Koshka clown in jungle to un-freeze it). While you are correct in saying that Caine is no longer viable in top due to his nerfs, I would argue that Gwen is viable in top simply because she has such a strong escape tool with Skedaddle in addition to being ranged, meaning that starting with Book of Eulogies and Sprint Boots allows Gwen two of the most important traits of a top laner: sustain and immense trading potential due to being ranged.

The thing about Grumpjaw is that he simply doesn't feel strong at any point of the game as he can just get outraded with little, if any trading ability due to Stuffed not coming up until level 6. While yes, eating the support during a teamfight is a massive plus in teamfights, is it really going to finish before they pop out again?

I generally agree with your tierlist apart from S-Tier. Joule and Grace are rarely, if ever seen as top, while I just explained why I dislike Grumpjaw. Even though I am a Lyra main, I still don't find her stronger than either Gwen or Leo, at least in soloq.

As for mid, I actually see Varya a lot. Maybe different regions? Lorelai, Skaarf and Samuel are rarely picked either. Also, I was rather surprised that Celeste doesn't see much play in t10, her damage potential is unrivalled if played right.

~Pasu
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TheMutantHotDog | August 3, 2019 10:16am
Im just going to put it down to rank differences, no offense but t7/8 is a joke where nobody knows how to lane and people have just learned how to last hit

Grump is the best trader in the game so idk what youre on
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Mehnameiskai | July 26, 2019 8:17pm
it said that the bot laner "only comes online later in the game" what the heck does that mean?
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Pasu (6) | July 28, 2019 12:04am
Hey man,

Thanks for your comment! That term means most, but not all bot laners only become strong later on in the game. In the early game, most of them, such as Ringo or Baron are incredibly weak and extremely susceptible to being ganked. "Coming online later in the game" pretty much means that they only do well later on in the game, meaning that they will be harrassed a lot early game.

~Pasu
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DeathWish (3) | July 26, 2019 6:37pm
i think warhawk shud be higher on the list , heres my argument. (btw i have been playing warhawk since he came out so u can trust me on some of this)
1.the damage and range from warhhawks basic attack can outrange and easly poke most midlaners (#ehem ,ehem vox,ehem)you dont have to hit your A but his perk will hit 80% of the time ,do it constanly and the enemy would be at 50% health without you knowing
2. his A dmg scales almost the same as celeste and his perk can make up for any lost dmg
3. his B ,some people dont like it , but it has the same delay as celeste's B
i plaeyd him a lot and this ability has so much utility in teamfights and has saved me way to many times it just needs a while to get used to
4.his B+A combo does alot of burst + (basic attack perk) my warhawk playstyle revolve around this and if an enemy chase you just reactivate B at your feet and A away
(this gives him more mobility?survivability than celeste


now im not saying warhawk is an op/realy good carry, it's just that he is extremly dificult to play and someone that is good enough with him can be awesum
he has diferent "utility" in teamfights in earky game his perk can harras lower ranged carry ,on late game his B+A burst can cripple enemies

weighing with other mid laners his damage slightly less than that of celeste but makes it up with high utility and burst ,pair him up with an assasin and you're set

note= im comparing him to other A tier laners(not s tier)
sowwy for any other grammatical errors dat mae or may not be intentional
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Pasu (6) | July 28, 2019 1:18am
Hey man,

Thank you for your detailed comment! While yes, the buffs made Warhawk playable, but A-Tier? Hmmm... I'll try to answer your points.

1. As I mentioned in the guide, CP Warhawk is the way to go mid lane, so your basic attacks won't be doing much damage. Yes, early game the poke does do a bit of damage, but the rocket does way more and if the enemy knows what they're doing, they will stand behind a minion to block it.

2. Celeste's Heliogenesis is one of the best zoning tools in the game simply because you can just reactivate the star if an enemy goes near it and Warhawk's A just doesn't do the job as well. Once again, his perk does no damage as CP, so I don't think it would make up the missing damage that either Heliogenesis or Mystic Missile can deal.

3. His Vacuum Grenade is incredibly useless when he gets ganked. Unlike Core Collapse, it won't activate instantly, meaning that if Krul rushes at you from the bush, you can't stun him and run off. However in that situation you can just Rocket Ride away, so yes, Warhawk does at least have more mobility than Celeste or Magnus.

4. Simply put, his Vacuum Grenade just takes too long to prime before it goes off, giving the enemies a large window of opportunity to avoid it.

While yes, his mobility is decent but as a mid laner you simply cannot be lacking in damage, as you are one of the late game carries. This is the main reason Malene sits so low in the tierlist. All of the A-Tier and above mid laners, namely Varya, Magnus, Lyra, Celeste and Vox deal significant damage late game, but I just don't see Warhawk on the same level. Also, I noticed that in your four points you never even mentioned his Mightiest Barrage. If the ult of a hero isn't even worth mentioning when you talk about his strong points, there's something wrong with the hero.

Either way, I respect your view and after considering for a while, I decided to move him up to the top of C-Tier, but he still feels like an inferior Baron to me as CP.

~Pasu
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Buttonwith3ts | July 24, 2019 4:07pm
skaarf and warhawk are S tier, there buffs make them amazing
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Pasu (6) | July 24, 2019 6:08pm
Hey man,

Thanks for your reply! Skaarf is an incredibly immobile hero with no CC nor any mobility, which completely excludes him from S-Tier. A player with some game knowledge would know to stand behind minions so that even if the fireball does hit them, it does minimum damage, which is why I still think he is unplayable.

On the matter of Warhawk, the buffs to him did quite a bit for his WP path, but for his CP path? The only buffs that are relevant are that of Rocket Ride and Mightiest Barrage, which merely make him playable and certainly not S-Tier.

Compare those to to Varya in S-Tier, who just does everything well at the moment and you'll see why those two are in C-Tier.
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