Vainglory Forums

What I've encountered lately is (I'm playing with Krul mostly), getting ganked by two (sometimes more) in the jungle early (I mean right out of the gate -- can't even get one minion out of the way before being ambushed), while my other two team mates stay in the lane (and won't come down to help often)...

We usually loose these matches because I can't level, and a single Ringo/SAW holds the lane against the two on my team long enough for the other two the in the jungle to out level me and go into the lane... they own the jungle/then they own the lane...

Even the times I have another hero down in the jungle, the opponents seems to focus on me (I suspect because Krul is the "jungler" and once he's gotten a few items under his belt he's fairly tough), and my team mate in the jungle just usually runs or gets ganked after they take care of me... because Krul very is squishy, I really can't do anything but get out of the way 2v1.

What I try to do is go to the lane when they gang up on me early, to put pressure on them to get out of the jungle -- but this almost never works because the hero holding the lane can simply stay next to the first torrent and I can't really take it without getting ganked until he's gone back to the base for a refresh, and sometimes one of the guys from the jungle comes back up to support. I then go back in the jungle again and it's 2v1 again.

Also, once they've got the gold mine for a few rounds... they're ahead in terms of items usually too. In addition, the items I do manage to get end up being ones that help me survive (as opposed to kite) enemy hero(s) -- which sets me and the team up for failure as well.

It's a vicious cycle...

I can't always count on my team mates playing as a "team" or recognizing the importance of establishing our side of the jungle to start.

So far, the only solution I've found is to get one of your team mates to do the same thing... team up early and go for there side before they do... but this happens less often than I'd like. What other counter strategies are there?

The mechanism of this game is very well balanced so if we don't play it as a team just slightly we can be out levelled quick when against well coordinated opponents, the experience gain system of this game is optimised for 1 laner+2 jungler, and also it can be very vulnerable for the solo jungler as you mentioned, most people who play 2 laner+1 jungler are just noobs who only focusing on seemingly trivial "advantage" but has no vision for the whole game. I totally agree with you, my solution is never team up with 2 obviously laner + 1 jungler. For example if there's a SAW, there should be no SKAARF or RINGO in the same team, ADAGIO and PETAL are ok if they go to JUNGLE(however in most of the cases they don't). I would rather waste 1:30 on hero selection than 30 mins on game. We should team up,

I've seen a Krul go with Sprint Boots as his starting item. Unless you're up against two junglers with gap closing abilities (like Catherine's Merciless Pursuit and Koshka's Pouncy Fun) you should be able to out maneuver them.

Besides for finding teammates you know won't desert (check my sig for finding teammates via twitter), learning how to effectively gank with Krul is probably your next best option.

Wait for the enemy laner(s) to pass the half way mark, use Shadows Empower Me to close the gap. Using a Frostburn to slow the enemy, Dead Man's Rush them, get some more weakness stacks and then Spectral Smite for the finish. You can try and stun a second with From Hell's Heart if you're good at multi-tasking :P Your laner should pick up on the fact that you're ganking and help out. Clearing out their laners from time to time should put that pressure on the other team's junglers to shift. Simply being in the lane will not.

@wolf_hands, I usually go with a Irongard Contract to start, but even if I did get boots I might escape a kite or two but end up loosing the jungle 2v1.

When I say I go to the lane, most of the time it is just to gank, as killing minions to start will mute the laners from leveling... also, in order to get the jump I usually do wait until they're in range (so they can't run back to the torrent before getting ganked). But even this sometimes doesn't work out as most of the time I can only get them "almost" ganked before they're back to safety (mostly because at that time I haven't gotten a chance to level much).

What I haven't tired is getting Frostburn to start. The reason is when I'm in this situation I usually go for a power/speed item like Breaking Point or Sorrowblad to try to turn the tide. For some reason I don't have a great impression of Frostburn (aside from its stun capabilities).

I've ran across my fair share of deserters, but really this situation is about 1 enemy vs 2 allies in the lane and 2 enemies vs a Krul (me) in the jungle. I'm ok at ganking and multi-tasking with Krul I guess, even with 2 enemies once I've had a chance to level, but again, this is about getting shut down right out of the gate by 2 enemies (and really to start it doesn't matter which two heros).

Here's my profile (mostly with Krul):

Thanks for your advice!

@Polymess, I completely agree with you on all counts. The only problem is, if I back out of a match at hero selection because the other two guys picked, for example, a SKAARF and SAW, we get dinged right?

Krul is a formidable foe. A good team almost always primaries him in team fights as he can turn the tide easily. With this MOBA as well as others like Dota 2 team selection is at least 60% of the battle. I have noticed maybe even more so getting into higher tiers now. I would use scout traps or flares to keep an eye on your enemies in the jungle. Just my two cents. Add me if you want to team up my Tank/support Catherine goes good with Kruls.

I forgot to mention using Scout Traps!!

Grab your Ironguard Contract, a couple potions, and then the scout trap. When you get chased, have one of two plans ready: 1) Drop the trap in a predetermined escape route, preferably in a narrow area so that they have to walk across it, or 2) Keep it on you until you do get chased, and then drop it when they've committed to the chase so you know it'll chunk their health.

After that initial defense strategy, keep a scout trap or two on you most of the time to rinse-and-repeat. Kite them into the traps to start the encounter in your favor.

Hopefully this will help offset their early game advantage in the jungle. Plus, having vision for ganks will be helpful as well. :)

P.S. Not selecting a hero will make it to where you have a 'Public Queue Cooldown'. As long as you only do it once every so often it shouldn't effect your Karma and definitely not your skill tier.

No, don't worry you will be fine. Actually the developers are about to implement more chat functions and maybe a function of "unlock hero selection" so we can form a desired team when we play.

That's great!

I agree with you previous comment, typically 2 junglers and 1 laner (which is somewhat subjective, but generally true IMO) is the "right" combo.

One thing I notice when I "wait around" for others to pick this "right" combo is someone ends up quickly picking a laner, and they want a laner too. The only logical thing I can think of is be because they think they won't level "fast" enough with 2 in the jungle?

I even fast select the other heros that might work then go back to Krul, 75% of the time it doesn't work... oh well. Like you said, it's better to waste 1:30 then 30:00.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Great feedback! I use flares often, but not scout traps much at the start (there's expensive in the beginning, relatively speaking)... I'll try to incorporate this into my MO.